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Dismantling state government

If SQ 744 passes, the next governor has only one job: Dismantling state
government

The state
Capitol in Oklahoma City. Photo By JAMES GIBBARD/llustration by ETHAN
ERICKSON/Tulsa World

By
WAYNE GREENE Editorial Writer
Published:
10/17/2010  2:24 AM
Last Modified:
10/17/2010  4:12 AM

Read Greene's blog.

Related
stories: Funding control puts state in the game.

Ill-conceived issue wrong for state.

The two women running for governor may not agree on philosophy or politics,
but they do agree on one thing: If voters approve State Question 744 on Nov. 2,
the impact on state government services will be deep and
painful.

I suspect that neither actually knows exactly how
deep or painful. If they did, they might back out of their campaigns.

Regardless of whether voters elect Lt. Gov. Jari Askins or U.S. Rep.
Mary Fallin to be the state's next chief executive, if SQ 744 passes the next
governor's term in office will be completely overshadowed by the ongoing funding
crisis the initiative petition will create.

It will so dominate the
machinery of state government that nothing in the candidates' platforms will
ever get any political air.

In case you haven't heard of it, SQ 744
would constitutionally mandate that the state spend at least as much on public
schools as the surrounding states do. Currently, Oklahoma is

last among those states.

David Blatt, director of the Oklahoma
Policy Institute and one of the smartest independent analysts of Oklahoma
government, has studied the potential fiscal impact of SQ 744 and the numbers
are stunning.

In the first year, the state would have to come up with
$392 million in new funding for public schools. Askins and Fallin both say that
tax increases aren't going to happen and SQ 744 provides no new revenue, so that
means the money will have to come from the budgets of other state services -
things like prisons, mental health facilities, higher education and the highway
patrol.

The $392 million will magnify a budget hole of $600 million to
$750 million that state lawmakers already face next year because the current
budget relied on one-time funding sources such as the federal stimulus bill and
the state's "rainy day" fund. Just staying even will require that much money.

That means in her first year in office the next governor will have to
come up with somewhere around $1 billion just to stay where we already are and
meet the SQ 744 mandates. She'll have to do it without raising taxes and without
cutting funding to the state's biggest tax consumer, public schools.

Why
would anyone want that job?

Projections
Keep in mind that this yawning fiscal chasm will come after
very lean budget years. More than half of state agencies have seen cuts of more
than 15 percent in their budgets in the past two years, Blatt said.

He
figures implementing the first year of the SQ 744 program alone would require an
additional cut of 8.5 percent to every state agency not covered by SQ 744. For
many state agencies that are able to match state money with federal funding -
career tech, services to the aged and disabled and the Department of
Rehabilitation Services, for example - such cuts would have an even deeper and
more painful impact.

The fun doesn't stop after the first year. SQ 744
would mean public schools would need an additional $415 million in the second
year. In year three, it would require an estimated $889 million in additional
money.

Supporters of SQ 744 have said that normal state economic growth
could fund the measure, but it would take an economic boom unlike any in state
history to produce the kind of tax revenue mandated by SQ 744.

Blatt
said that if state revenue were to grow at 10.5 percent a year, and the moving
target of the regional average spending on education only grows by 5 percent,
the state would still end up needing to take $192 million out of the funding of
other state agencies by the third year and there would be serious problems the
first two years also.

(Of course, if Oklahoma has that sort of economic
boom, the surrounding states would also be flush with money to spend on public
schools, so the target would keep moving up.)

All plans evaporate
Oklahoma's funding of public education is
embarrassingly low, and the results have been predictably bad. School rooms are
too crowded and teachers are underpaid. If you want to give public schools more
money, you'll get no argument from me.

But you cannot mandate school
funding in a vacuum.

In addition to funding public schools at the lowest
level in our region, Oklahoma is also funding the rest of state government at
the lowest level among the same peer states.

Hack away enough money to
raise funding for the schools and you end up with nothing but ashes where the
rest of state government used to be.

That's why Askins and Fallin, Gov.
Brad Henry, the state's largest public employee union, the state Fraternal Order
of Police, the Oklahoma Municipal League and many, many others who understand
how state government works have opposed SQ 744.

The two candidates for
governor approach the coming election with big plans for the state, but if SQ
744 passes, those plans evaporate immediately and she can start working on their
single task: dismantling state government.

Wayne Greene 581-8308
[email-masked]

By
WAYNE GREENE Editorial Writer

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Comments

Report
Comment
Middleway(MB), Undisclosed Location (5 months ago)

Whatever happened to all the money the lottery was supposed
to bring in?

Report
Comment
Thunder196, Tulsa (5 months ago)

According to those who are for SQ744, the money will come
from politicians perks. Yeah right. It won't be their perks touched. It
will be those things listed in this editorial, plus some.

Vote no
to SQ744.

Report
Comment
BASleuth, (5 months ago)

If the Oklahoma Turnpike Authority is prohibited by State
Law from waiving the fees for vehicles involved in a funeral possession of
a member of the United States Military killed in the line of duty, then
the law needs to be changed. If this is merely the policy of the Oklahoma
Turnpike Authority then the membership of the Authority needs to be
removed and replaced by individuals who have common sense and respected
those killed in the line of duty.

Report
Comment
lumberjack04, (5 months ago)

Agreed Sleuth.

This state has a problem with spending
money on public school systems, and money would be taken away from higher
education, how do you expect kids from public schools to get to the higher
education????

Besides, if the city of Tulsa can get a multi million
dollar grant for our Police department(which we needed hardcore), how can
the state not get assistance from the feds for funding our public school
system?

Report
Comment
mc67, (5 months ago)

Throwing more money at this problem is the same as flushing
it down the toilet. Just track the 500% increase in per pupil spending on
education in this country in the past 40 years as opposed to the minimal
increase in standardized student test scores in that same period to see
the effect more money has had. Until the backs of the NEA and AFT unions
are broken and the resistance to merit pay for teachers ends, this problem
will never be resolved.

Report
Comment
wardog, Miami (5 months ago)

If you think only the money is wrong in education you are so
wrong. We are now allowing a piece of paper decide what teachers to fire
and then we expect to get better teachers...with what charm? A test
deciding the fate of a person who was decatided enough to go to collage
for extended years with money they didn't have all on the score the not so
intelligent kid down the street have become. How can you let this happen,
if the gene pool is low (believe me its LOW) how would you like your job
decided on this fact? You might make little Johnny somewhat smarter but a
great tester, a wonder chiild, I don't think so. You can't make genius out
of a rock! Then comes the big money, well its not going to those dedacated
people who have your kids all day. Its gone before it gets to the
classrooms. Where have you been, its the BUSINESS PART of education that
gets the big bucks and always has, this isn't something new, you just let
it slide. Now all of a sudden you want it fixed. All the while you've been
putting blames where they don't belong. Try teaching your own kid for a
while, and see just how much they learn. Well your baby sitter would be
gone and you wound't like that. Why don't you try thinking for a while,
you've done such a bad job in the past, it would be a nice change. Find
out something for yourself instead of just being told in the market or on
the street. You make big decissions on hearsay...not right. If your kid
isn't the smartest thats just a fact and you shouldn't have the power to
destroy a persons life because your kids isn't a brain child. Stop paying
the business and begin paying the person who cares for your child as you
do, the one who tries to teach and guide them into the future. Paying the
Boss only gets him or her a nicer house or car. Money should solve most
problems but if its used the same year after year look at the
reason....its not with the teachers or those darn tests.

Report
Comment
GARFIELD, Tulsa (5 months ago)

A tad long, but I agree with Wardog. And I'm suspicious;
with so many gurus AGAINST 744, I'm voting FOR it!

Report
Comment
hmmmmmmm, (5 months ago)

if SQ 744 funds just one function of state government at an
appropriate level, its worth it. Vote YES.

Report
Comment
Oklahomer, Sapulpa (5 months ago)

SQ 744 and the rest of the state budget can easily be funded
if Oklahoma will simply tax its wealthiest citizens at the same level that
it taxes its poorest people.

Currently, the poorest 20% of
Oklahomans pay an average of 9.9% of their incomes in state and local
taxes. The wealthiest 1% of Oklahomans pay less than 5% of their incomes
in state and local taxes and the next wealthiest group pay only slightly
more than 5% of its income in state and local taxes.

The choice is
ours. Do we wish to continue to burden our poorest people with the highest
tax rates AND fail to adequately support the services supplied by state
government or do we want to flatten the tax burden for fairness and
provide an adequate amount of money to fund a very modest level of support
for education and other vital services?

Report
Comment
Four
Sixteen Rigby, Tulsa (5 months ago)

Oklahoma:

But the state politicians are NOT going to
tax the rich. Period. Forget about it. They will run this state even
further into the GROUND in order to avoid that. Why? Because they are
rich. And Thunder is right. They ain't gonna give up their perks, either.
You, are living in a dreamland.

Report
Comment
Adairjb, Adair (5 months ago)

Failing schools is not a school thing, it is a
parent/student thing. When I was attending school, I was not ALLOWED to
not perform. I was forced to study and do my work as it was NOT OPTIONAL!
This policy was put in place by my parents at zero financial impact to
taxpayers. I have had good teachers and bad teachers, and I had no idea of
their salaries. All I know is I had to do my work. Stop making this about
money folks!

Report
Comment
econman, Jay (5 months ago)

More money will not fix the Oklahoma school system. The
problem is with the parents and employers who do not appreciate the
importance of education. There is a disdain for education in the state
with the educated being called "elite" as a perjorative term. As long as
normal speech in Oklahoma contaings phrases like "I seen" or "I have went"
education will still be ridiculed.

Report
Comment
Oklahomer, Sapulpa (5 months ago)

Four Sixteen Rigby:

I see what you are trying to do.
You don't appear to want to raise taxes on the rich and you don't want
anyone to try to make it a part of our state's political
discussion.

Well, I will just have to disappoint you. This issue
has become important to me and I am going to talk about it at every
opportunity. I believe that we arrived at our current sorry state of
affairs because we allowed the powerful interests to determine what we
should or shouldn't talk about. The recent discussion in tax policy has
been about adding more sales taxes and gambling money to finance
government on the state and local level. On the national level, the
dominant idea has been about cutting income taxes, inheritance taxes, and
capital gains taxes, which mostly benefits the wealthy. A bogus idea
called THE FAIR TAX has received a lot of undeserved attention as
well.

I may be living in a dream land, but my dream land would be a
much better place than Oklahoma and the United States are currently. I'm
hoping that others will join me in urging that we make the dream a
reality. Call me Don Quixote if you like. I don't mind. It is better than
being one of the mindless sheeple who let the rich and powerful mislead
them.

Report
Comment
Live
Wire, Tulsa (5 months ago)

Oklahomer:

Still disseminating the wealth envy
propaganda? Perhaps you'd feel more at home somewhere else-like Venezuela.

Report
Comment
Ferris
Bueller, Northbrook, Il (5 months ago)

Boo Hoo Homercrat. Nobody will play with you and your
regressive tax strawman. Will you be honest and admit that the poorest 20%
pay more as a percentage of their income for cigarettes, beer and Internet
service too? Is that really fair?

Report
Comment
Oklahomer, Sapulpa (5 months ago)

Live wire: If it is wealth envy to want the wealthy to pay
the same percentage of their income in state and local taxes as we
currently have our poorest people pay, then I am guilty as
charge.

What should it be called when people support having those
least able to pay taxes bear the heaviest burden?

Report
Comment
Tulsa
Jack, Tulsa, OK (5 months ago)

This is really sad.

They don't want to fund
education, so they're going to take the rest of the state hostage to
ensure that it doesn't happen. Why can't Oklahoma fund their school at the
levels that our neighbors do? Because we're a bunch of cheap-skates.

Report
Comment
Oklahomer, Sapulpa (5 months ago)

Tulsa Jack:

That's how this crowd rolls.

Report
Comment
Oklahomer, Sapulpa (5 months ago)

Tulsa Jack: Go to today's editorial cartoon and see my
latest comment. I gave you credit for the idea. Hope you like it.

Report
Comment
Mountain
Boomer, (5 months ago)

If SQ744 passes my new address will be a post office box in
Texas. I refuse to take a hit on this madness. The same people supporting
this garbage were also the ones that said SQ1017 would fix everything.
Just like this bill the funds were not earmarked and the majority went
down the administrative toilet.

Report
Comment
el
Diablo, Hell (5 months ago)

Vote No on 744.

Oklahomie, you better put on an OU
cheerleader skirt becasue you are the only one leading the cheer fot 744
to pass.

Report
Comment
Oklahomer, Sapulpa (5 months ago)

el Diablo: It makes little difference to me if no one gets
on the train headed to a better Oklahoma with me. I will still insist on
going in the right direction even if I have to go alone. I can assure you
that my side is outnumbered, but I am hardly alone.

Mountain
Boomer: Texas charges a lot more for property taxes than does Oklahoma and
they don't tax people on food.

Report
Comment
NowWeKnow, (5 months ago)

I for one feel the Oklahoma education system should be
reformed first. This top heavy use kids for hostages system has to many
problems to be throwing more money at. Everyday now I hear of lawyers
getting more and more money that is taken from education to protect the
turf of bloated administration.

And we know no matter how much
money we throw at the problem we will not get any results until we can
break the hands of those who keep grabbing the money and putting it in
thier pockets.

I can understand wardog's concerns, but just like
all students are graded by testing so must the teachers and management. We
do need to address children who neither have the inclination or desire to
advance into higher education, that they be given a training to thier
liking that will substain them with decent pay through life. There could
be different type testing for this segment to assure the best approach is
working.

Probably one lesson our education officialdom needs is
how to have a system that can run on less and produce fantastic results.
With the resources they now use up constantly shaking down taxpayers,
using taxpayer money to benefit those with no business in the education
field, and the protection of a failed money pit, the students could
benefit from thier removal.

So merge districts by at least 2/3rds,
give the less fortunate options where our taxes do more good, put all
school attorneys under a state umbrella so law issues can be worked out
before the messy expense is wasted, and hold administration to a scorecard
with failure resulting in starvation salary/benefits and the door.

If teachers are not willing to work with citizens to dismantle the
hierarchy they know uses and abuses the system they and students will
always be shortchanged no matter how much citizens invest. This can be
done by voting opposite the vote you are told to cast by the education
establishment monopoly.

Citizens should demand before another dime
is wasted true reform is completed, and not just spoken of. We all know
the biggest fear of this established monopoly is competition, as they know
if students are taken from thier control they will do much better for much
less. The glaring realization by all of results if allowed to happen will
force them to perform, and compete. Then the citizens will always know
when more money is actually needed, and not used against the best
interests of all.

Report
Comment
Loophole, (5 months ago)

How about listing all the politicians' perks so we can take
a look at what ought to be dropped. After all, we're paying for them and
probably had nothing to say about their enactment. Actually, we probably
knew nothing about their enactment.

Report
Comment
Oklahomer, Sapulpa (5 months ago)

NowWeKnow: The reforms have already been passed. President
Bush signed the bill known as NCLB in early 2002 and the state of Oklahoma
created its program to meet the requirements. You can go to the site of
the State of Oklahoma Department of Education and read about what has been
going on for nearly a decade. The schools have been waiting for the money
to fund all of the mandates and SQ 744 is an effort to force the
legislature to find the money.

NOW YOU KNOW.

Report
Comment
Eagle
4, Tulsa (5 months ago)

The editorial totally bypasses the primary cause of all this
low funding - Oklahoma businesses have the lowest wage scale in the
region. Middle Class taxes can not support superior, or even average,
education. More blinders on the Conservative crowd that is 100% behind tax
incentives, cuts and writeoffs for businesses in Oklahoma, while still
paying lower wages than every surrounding state.

Report
Comment
Gasp, tulsa (5 months ago)

TW is afraid their exemption from taxes of advertising sales
will be eliminated to pay for education. That is their real fear and
explains their turn away from what they know is the only likely way
education will be funded in Oklahoma.

Don't tax me. Don't tax
thee. Tax the folks behind that tree. That is what is driving TW over
moderates to the far right on this one.

Too bad they do not have a
policy, like CNBC analysts to disclose financial conflicts of interest,
for their editorials.

YES YES YES on 744.

Report
Comment
Gasp, tulsa (5 months ago)

744 does NOT eliminate the legislature and governor, most
likely Republican next several years, from consolidating schools, reducing
the amount of funds on administration, and other needed education reforms.
They can even require that 95% of the new money goes to directly to the
classroom.

The no side knows this but still implies with their
advertising that they will be helpless to control where the money goes. It
is a lie, they know it and because they lie we should punish them by
voting for the truth and forcing the new Republican controlled legislature
to make the reforms they now will not even talk about making. If they
don't then misspending will be on their heads.

Report
Comment
Gasp, tulsa (5 months ago)

The new money will have to go through a right wing
controlled sieve. So why are all of you conservatives so worried. ALL the
money, not 95%, can be forced by the radical right that will control this
state into the classroom. They will have total control over the direction
of the money just not the amount.

Maybe they can show us why we
need 149 legislators, rather than like Nebraska 49, that meet in one body
once every TWO years to do that states business. Do we have that much more
business that NEEDS to be conducted. Yet none from the right suggest
cutting at the top.

Report
Comment
independent, tulsa (5 months ago)

okee-doke...you sniveling about higher taxes isn't going to
change the dynamic. If you want to donate more to the government, write
the check and shut up about it. As you have said in the recent past...744
is not going to pass.

Hell no, 744!! CONSOLIDATE SCHOOLS

Report
Comment
Crabby, (5 months ago)

Oklahomer says: "Call me Don Quixote if you like." Every
reader of the Cervantes classic realizes that the good Don was insane.
Now, I finally understand the tone and content of Oklahomer's numerous
posts.

Report
Comment
Oklahomer, Sapulpa (5 months ago)

crabby: You found me out! Living in Oklahoma with its Tea
Party mentality has driven me over the edge.

independent: I'd
rather double your tax rate.

Report
Comment
NowWeKnow, (5 months ago)

Baloney Oklahomer.

Maybe you should read the one
line that applies:

"Citizens should demand before another dime is
wasted true reform is completed, and not just spoken of."

You KNOW
DARN WELL they are going to use our tax dollars to fight to keep the
status quo period. True reform could otherwise be completed easily, not
costing but saving and making available massive sums for teachers and
students.

Report
Comment
Oklahomer, Sapulpa (5 months ago)

NowWeKnow:

I do NOT darn well any such thing. I am
all in favor of getting rid of the current 149 members of the two houses
of our state legislature. I would like to elect 149 people who believe
that we should consolidate the legislature into one house with 101 members
and consolidate schools so that all districts must either have 3,000 or
more students enrolled, or in the case of small counties, all schools in a
county be served by a single County Superintendent of schools.

I
am for electing legislators who will require by writing the appropriate
legislation that the money from SQ 744 be spent on hiring more teachers,
paying decent wages to the teachers, buying technology, books, and
classroom supplies.

Anyone who votes to return their current
legislator to Oklahoma City isn't thinking. Get rid of all of the people
who have so poorly led this state and start fresh.

Report
Comment
thehero, (5 months ago)

Let's ponder these facts:

First, the only way to
increase per-pupil spending is to either decrease the number of students
in the state or increase educational spending. The student population
continues to grow every year so we continue to fall in per pupil spending.
The student population has increased by nearly 75,000 the past two
decades. We are now 49th out of 51 which includes all states plus
Washington D.C.

Second, Consolidating school districts will not
impact per pupil spending or free up any additionl funds for education.
Any cost savings (which would be little, if any) would be at the local
school levels. Remember, Oklahoma used to have over 5,000 school districts
a few decades ago and now has only 528 or so. Where are all the savings
from all this consolidation?

Oklahoma schools spend an average of
8.4% on administrative costs based on the latest NCES data. This
administrative cost includes superintendents, principals, assistants,
treasurers, adminstrative secretaries, etc. Kansas is 8.8%, Arkansas is
7.8%, Texas is 7.0%, Missouri is 8.7%, New Mexico is 8.2%. Oklahoma is not
out of the norm for administrative costs. So much for "bloated
administration". But of course, all these states invest much more per
pupil in education than Oklahoma does.

Finally, let's look at the
cost of living. The most recent data (2nd quarter, 2010) shows that the
cost of living index in Oklahoma is 90.21, Kansas is 90.58, Arkansas is
91.21, Texas is 90.79, Missouri is 90.76 and New Mexico is 98.57. As you
can see, the cost of living in the surrounding states is very similar. So
how are they able to fund their education much better than Oklahoma?

Report
Comment
Gasp, tulsa (5 months ago)

Ture Reform. Dream dream dream. True reform would mean 10
counties not 77, 25 legislators not 149, one school district for Tulsa
County minimum (oh yea we need to keep the Jenks kids pure and away from
all those roughins in the rest of the county so maybe 2 districts. After
all we spent millions over the years for "separate but equal" and none of
the tea party types were screaming consolidation then. So it seems pretty
disingenuous now when everyone seems to want to preserve TW's incredible
advertising sales tax exemption.

Report
Comment
Four
Sixteen Rigby, Tulsa (5 months ago)

Oklahomer:

The problem with Dreamland? You have to
wake up every morning and face reality.

Report
Comment
independent, tulsa (5 months ago)

Hell no, 744!! CONSOLIDATE SCHOOLS

Report
Comment
Gasp, tulsa (5 months ago)

Hades yes! (When I used the H word they would not allow my
post, Hey what's the deal.

HHH YES YES YES On 744 Consolidate the
counties and legislators into one house and no more than 25. And tax
advertising everywhere you find it. Make those stupid Viagra and loud
shouting car commercials pay a price for the torture they subject us to
just so we can watch a very little TV between their mind numbing garbage.
Call it an over the airwaves pollution tax.

Report
Comment
Gasp, tulsa (5 months ago)

VOTE YES ON 744 and tax advertising. It is useless and a tax
might make mad ad men think twice before they subject us to their garbage.

Report
Comment
Oklahomer, Sapulpa (5 months ago)

7th Angel: Several of them, like Jester1969, have private
profile pages. Jester use to be on my friends list so that I could see his
activity. One night when he and a few other commenters who were making the
same unsupported point began to accuse me of being some guy who has made
only a few comments, but uses my avatar, the thought occurred to me that
perhaps "they" were actually the same guy. I mentioned that I was going to
check their activity and Jester1969 immediately deleted me as a friend. I
agree that the TW should not allow people to have more than one
account.

Four Sixteen Rigby: Unfortunately you are correct and the
reality was created by people like yourself. We have it in our power to do
so much better.

Gasp: I think the Tulsa World has a double standard
that allows conservatives who swallow their party-line to post comments
that would be a violation of the terms and conditions if we moderates were
to make them. I reported a comment yesterday in which another person
called me an A-hole. It is still up. I don't name-call because I don't
need to name-call to defeat another person's poorly reasoned comment, but
I greatly resent that the Tulsa World allows conservative name-callers to
get away with their slime.

Report
Comment
Oklahomer, Sapulpa (5 months ago)

I need to correct a statement on my last comment. My mistake
was not intentional. I simply remembered it wrong. The other commenter
told me that I didn't know my A from a hole in the ground. The comment is
still up after I reported it.

I just tried to send it with $$
substituting for the letter s as the conservative was allowed to send it.
The robo-censor stopped me. Case closed.

Report
Comment
el
Diablo, Hell (5 months ago)

7th Angel, Oklahomie accused me of being Jester, Ferris and
others. Jester and I actually posted comments at the samme time that
evening and Oklahomie said I was using two computers just to confound him.
Who am I now? LOL

Oklahomie a moderate? That's the laugh of the
day.

Everyone agrees you are the former Democrat hiding out now as
Oklahomie.

Ok, wait, I'm comming back as Ferris or Jester to
comment.

Report
Comment
Dr.
Strangelove, Don't Ask (5 months ago)

Homercrat, you're a moderate? LMAO!!!

Report
Comment
Dr.
Strangelove, Don't Ask (5 months ago)

Diablo beat me to it- hahaha

Report
Comment
RLG3RD, Broken Arrow (5 months ago)

It's always a bad idea to connect ourselves by law to the
surrounding states for any reason.

Report
Comment
el
Diablo, Hell (5 months ago)

Doc, Homercrat is going to think I am you and you are me and
we are all together. I am the walrus and Paul is dead, LMFAO!

Report
Comment
NowWeKnow, (5 months ago)

OK, some arguments from the pro 744 group answers. Since 744
is a ploy to tie us to other US measurements, some things we should know.
These are independantly verifyable:

Pupil teacher ratio OK 13.9 US
15.3

The 2006 Program For International Student Assessment (PISA)
process showed that the United States' students fared far worse than many,
many countries in the world on math and science tests

We get no
bang for our buck when it comes to health care and education expenditures,
spending the most and getting for less than quality back in
return

spending for education has steadily increased year on year,
reaching 7 percent of GDP in 2008

"Of the top ten countries, the
United States had the ninth worst rating on the political corruption
component, beating out only Chile." Since schools are so political now, I
think we all know they fit this catagory

And the defense spending
should go to schools argument:

Defense spending in the United
States has fluctuated in the last century, rising from one percent of GDP,
peaking at 42 percent in World War II, declining from 10 percent in the
Cold War to five percent today

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Comment
Gasp, tulsa (5 months ago)

RLG3RD: Always. Why not do this for almost all of our
budget. Take the regional averages and fund accordingly. Let the taxes go
up and down proportionally. Then we could send the Leg. home most of the
year. We should do like Nebraska anyway. Tell me why we need three times
more legislators who meet two times as much? Are we better off than
Nebraska for all that extra legislative activity. Who needs it?

Maybe we could even outsource the legislative functions to
surrounding governments. Better still lets merge with Texas. They need our
water and we could us their growth and higher education trust fund. We
certainly would be a more powerful and economically sound country if we
had a maximum of 25 states even better with 10 states.

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Comment
Oklahomer, Sapulpa (5 months ago)

On cue, the little group of one has arrived.

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Comment
Gasp, tulsa (5 months ago)

YES on 744. It passes the the Legislature can deal with it
and its repercussions and do their job for a change. Vote Yes get some
work out of these whatever you want to call em. but try try to keep it
clean.

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Comment
RLG3RD, Broken Arrow (5 months ago)

Gasp,

Gee , why not do it for the whole country, or
better yet, why have any states at all. Wait! lets just have one big world
government.I don't want to have anything to do with any State that votes
for clowns like Barney Frank.

Hi Oklahomer, On cue??

yes, I
am out here, My group is bigger than you're group.
:)

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Comment
docpresley, Tulsa (5 months ago)

Well said "Now we Know"!

When I was a student in TPS
they were twice as many students and only 2 floors at the Educational
Service Center.

Now there are 6 floors and half the students, that
says it all.

Its time to let schools compete for the opportunity to
educate our kids.

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Comment
docpresley, Tulsa (5 months ago)

I can't believe I agree with a TW editorial writer, will
miracles never cease ( :

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Comment
Oklahomer, Sapulpa (5 months ago)

RLG3RD: I wasn't talking about you.

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Comment
RLG3RD, Broken Arrow (5 months ago)

Oklahomer,

Okay!!!

Have a good
day.

Bob

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Comment
el
Diablo, Hell (5 months ago)

On cue, homercrat takes the bait. Works every time.

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Comment
mike2000, (5 months ago)

Everyone making over 8,000/year pays the 5.5 percent rate.
The "rich" don't pay at a lower rate. Factor in property and sales taxes
then that number will change. My answer to that isa question -so what?

Why not take 90 percent of the "rich" people's income? Why not 99
percent?
Because the government knows that taxing the rich will drive
people to Texas or Florida where there is no state income tax. 5.5 percent
on top of 35 or 39.6 (if you are one of Obama's rich) plus social security
and Medicare puts many people over the 50 percent rate

Oklahoma
schools stink because there are too many of them. Look to Kansas and see
how they have consolidated and cut overhead.

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Comment
independent, tulsa (5 months ago)

Mike2000...nice to hear from you, great post. Hell no, 744!!
CONSOLIDATE SCHOOLS. Who knows we might even send okee-doke to a career
best suited to his particular talents...writing fiction. He'd be as
successful as he is teaching our kids to fail their standardized tests.
After all, he has admitted that he and other teachers today are not doing
as good a job as teachers in the past. He has also admitted that we need
to CONSOLIDATE schools and get rid of some teachers so that other teachers
could a pay raise that would put them at the TOP of the regional averages.
What a louse.

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Comment
thehero, (5 months ago)

independent: Just curious. How are you going to eliminate
teachers when the student population in Oklahoma keeps growing? Oklahoma
does need to consolidate a little, especially in some of the PK-8 school
districts. Just because you consolidate doesn't mean you will save money.
How are you going to give teachers raises without additional funding?

Mike2000: Kansas spends and average of 8.8% of their school
district budgets on administrative costs, Oklahoma spends an average of
8.4% of their budgets on administrative costs. Kansas spends $9,883 per
pupil while Oklahoma spends $7,683 per pupil. Looks like consolidation
worked for them.

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Comment
Charley, (5 months ago)

Anybody that believes SQ744 will be goof for Oklahoma,
please see your doctor.

Wanna do something for Oklahoma, vote every
incumbent out of office & research the new ones very very carefully.
In fact I'd like to see government officials sign a "no-confidence
contract", so it would be easy to throw the bums out when they fail us.

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Comment
MarkB, Oklahoma City (5 months ago)

In the last 8 years we have gone from 42 to 49th on per
pupil funding, the Legislature gutted 1017 reforms (with Henry signing the
bills) because they were to expensive to continue, and they cut education
funding equal to the amount of lottery funding.
The definition of
insanity is doing the same thing, and expecting different results.
It
is really quite simple, The Tulsa World trusts the Oklahoma Legislature to
do the right thing. I do not. I vote Yes on 744, so they have no choice.

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Comment
Ferris
Bueller, Northbrook, Il (5 months ago)

7th Angel aka Blue, Queen of the Sock Puppets, has died more
deaths on the TW threads than any other poster and is lecturing here on
transformers. Homercrat, you are in good hands with Angel. The two of you
were made for each other.

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Comment
NowWeKnow, (5 months ago)

Just vote out all the entrenched Democrats, and any bad
Republican you know. They are responsible for Oklahoma being at the bottom
of every list since statehood. This education monopoly is broken because
of thier democrat buddies. And any idiot that says if you cut the bloated
administration by 2/3rds or more by consolodation you will not save any
money should not be involved in schools period. And of course they don't
count attorneys and other ridiculous expenses as administration.
Statistics don't lie, liars use statistics. Sheesh, you should see how
much the pro 744 gang is spending to fool the folks, I have a feeling that
money originated from the taxpayers.

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Comment
NoOneImportant, (5 months ago)

Oklahomer: I'm not sure if anyone has informed you yet as I
have not read all of the comments but it is a well known fact that the
NCLB Act has been a failure. You obviously know very little about public
education. How is it that private schools do just fine on a min of $4,000
per student yet a public education costs $11,000 (actually more like
$13,000) in OK and test scores continue to fall? Sounds to me like the
wrong people are getting money that should go to the students and
teachers.

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Comment
Oklahomer, Sapulpa (5 months ago)

NoOneImportant: Where did you get your figures on how much
education costs in Oklahoma public schools and private schools? It is
laughable that you tell me that I don't know what I am talking about when
you are so far off with your figures.

I guess that you didn't
realize that quality private schools such as Bishop Kelley, Cascia Hall,
and Holland Hall ALL charge tuitition and fees that are higher than the
dollar amounts received by public schools in Oklahoma.

You are also
wrong to write that NCLB HAS ALREADY been a failure. If you actually read
the information available from the state, you would know that the schools
have until 2014 to get to the "perfect score" of 1500 on the state's AYP
scale. Most schools on the state have routinely made at least adequate
yearly progress to this point. One should also realize that the AYP to
this point has been fairly low-hanging fruit. The big steps will begin in
2012. That is why adequate funding of education can no longer be avoided
if the public schools, which serve all students who choose to attend, are
to offer the kind of education available for twice the money at Holland
Hall.

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Comment
Oklahomer, Sapulpa (5 months ago)

7th Angel: There is no point to Bueller's comments. It is
best to ignore that guy. You can waste a lot of time with him. Watch him
(and perhaps some of his other "characters") turn his attention to me
because of this warning. I won't respond and after several feeble
attempts, he will simply go away and all discussion on this thread will
end as intelligent people go to other threads.

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Comment
RandyD, (5 months ago)

@NowWeKnow. Reality seems to be a fleeting possibility for
you. Student to
teacher ration 13.9:1? Try 35:1. A convenient fact for
you about PISA. With
the exception of Poland, nearly all of the
countries in their survey have
obligatory education until the age of
14. Then they test them at 15. We, on
the other hand, test everyone
(including our dropouts to be). I took the time
to read the reports and
the actual deviation from 1st to 20th place is about
2%. On political
corruption, schools have to follow state laws and are
subject to
audits. There is a level of transparency that doesn't exist in
the
corporate world so corruption and incompetence are checked when they
occur.
You don't give any sources about defense spending but a cursory
check of
the fed shows 6.7%. However, there is a lot that they don't
count as defense
spending that really is. Star wars has resulted in 1.2
trillion dollars
toward the weaponization of space. Military
Construction appropriations,
supplementals to pay for the wars, debt
financed outlays going back to 1916,
ongoing and future veterans
benefits, cost of maintaining 737 military bases
around the world, and
don't forget the black budget which is secret. It would
be hard to
imagine that the feds education budget is anywhere near their
defense
budget and defense costs are projected to rise. Chalmers
Johnson's
Nemesis is a good read that will bring you up to speed on
defense appropriations. Please provide sources for your accusations.
Random rants
such as "We get no bang for our buck when it comes to
health care and education expenditures, spending the most and getting for
less than quality back in return" after saying these are things we know
for sure without providing any source of reference give others the
impression that your morphine
drip is turned up a notch too high.

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Comment
Jester1969, Broken Arrow (5 months ago)

Homercrat,

We can settle this whole issue very
easily. I will be more than happy to have the TW compare my IP or whatever
it is they use to that of Ferris, Diablo, Doc, CR, tfromTulsa, etc if YOU
would be willing to do the same with your old Democrat account? What do
you say? Put up or shut up.

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Comment
NowWeKnow, (5 months ago)

RandyD, the NCES is the source of 13.9 for Oklahoma with
a national average of 15.3. Even the unions were only claiming about 22,
and we know how they fudge numbers. Your 35.1 is so bogus your whole
argument on knowing anything is out the window.

Here, start
checking sources all the way back to 1983 and when your done with that
homework I can get a lot more for you.

According to all
measurements of education quality in the world that assesses the education
of our kids with the kids in other countries, we do not fare well at all.
The 2006 Program For International Student Assessment (PISA) process
showed that the United States' students fared far worse than many, many
countries in the world on math and science tests. Not surprising since
these findings are consistent with August Newsweek findings discussed
previously and President Reagan' 1983 special commission on
education

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Comment
NowWeKnow, (5 months ago)

These tidbits are from the Sunshine Review:

Education
in Oklahoma: The Real Costs."
Anderson writes, "If the CEO and finance
division of any publicly held company attempted to influence public
opinion with misstated financial data to the extent done by Oklahoma's
education officials, they would be subject to criminal and civil
prosecution."

The results showed that the actual cost of per-pupil
spending for 2007 was $10,942. Official figures from the Oklahoma State
Department of Education (SDE) hold that in FY-2007 a total of $4.07
billion was spent on public education at the local school level. However,
many expenditures are not figured into that number. With those added in,
the total cost to taxpayers for public education jumps to $6.5 billion

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Comment
NowWeKnow, (5 months ago)

I thought that one interesting since your claim on the
military budget.

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Comment
NowWeKnow, (5 months ago)

And your not fooling anyone on the no corruption angle,
did you forget you're in Oklahoma? Besides all the school attorney's
robbing the kids money make sure no law must be followed.

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Comment
NowWeKnow, (5 months ago)

One of the reports I was reading today said Ireland was
doing pretty good 7th Angel.

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Comment
NowWeKnow, (5 months ago)

I was reading up on education all over the world.
Apparently Ireland does well for thier lads and ladies with a decent use
of money.

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NowWeKnow, (5 months ago)

You know me 7th Angel, I fight to much. After the war, I
would be glad to come out of the trenches.

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Comment
Homeplate2, Porum (5 months ago)

We know underfunding education is NOT the answer, we have
been doing that for about as long as I can remember. So we want to
continue underfunding it and want different results. What is crazy about
that picture? How about trying to adequately fund it for a change. we
might just get different results!
YES on 744

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Comment
NowWeKnow, (5 months ago)

Well that would be grand 7th Angel, but this war for me
has been going on for decades. Everytime I think it may be over, more
corpses show up. But who knows, November 2 might bring great change to
Oklahoma. If the national level supports ending the corruption in
Oklahoma, we'd be home free.

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Comment
RandyD, (5 months ago)

@NowWeKnow

Let me refer you to the Tulsa World,
August 24th, 2010.
Class sizes grow as Tulsa cuts 225 teachers. Chad
Beesley said his social studies classes were averaging 32-35 students each
- about 10 students larger than last year.

"It changes the dynamics
of the way you form instruction. It will mean less one-on-one time with
students and less group work because we are limited in space," Beesley
said.

As for the PISA study, read my last post and you'll
understand that it's not
a fair comparison. The age of obligatory
education requirement is higher here.
(Except Poland who simply beat us
fair and square>must be 18 to drop out there).

And your last
comment about the real cost of educating students is another
hack job
by wingnut Brandon Dutcher. No mystery there (nor
credibility).

Also, I never said no corruption. I said they are
checked as they occur. Some
school patrons check more closely than
others and blow the whistle immediately,
others don't. Did you know
that any time a teacher forgets to put a purchase
order in place before
ordering supplies and tries to do it retroactively, they
have to sign
an affidavit admitting that they are guilty of violating state
law?
There is transparency there that simply doesn't exist in private

companies. Ask yourself, what business owner do you know that hasn't
cooked
the books at one time or another to avoid paying taxes or to
look good on
paper to get that loan, etc.

So put your tin foil
helmet back on and turn up the drip another notch.

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Comment
NowWeKnow, (5 months ago)

Homeplate2
You guys got your chance with 1017, and you
failed us miserably. Try something new besides throwing money at a bad
system. Like fix it first, heck you got the republicans coming in to do it
for you. You know darn well this plan is to make an end run around them to
keep the rotten status quo.

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Comment
NowWeKnow, (5 months ago)

RandyD,

Your as rude as you are full of it. You
use an article that mentions 1 classroom as your basis? If in fact that
one class was full that week, I'm sure it was remedied and in any case
when things get somewhat normal they will be down to the 13.9 as stated.

And it is not just the PISA study that says America spends the
most on education of any country in the world and gets the least. It's a
fact. These linking our budgets with others is only a tactic to further a
monopoly with no end.

And to claim private business fudges books,
you guys are much better at it than anybody. The whole education system in
Oklahoma needs a major overhaul, and we need to do it without a failed
national system interfering. Take a note from other countries instead, to
successful systems and do what they do.

We've heard time and time
again in America when we get rid of these worthless hooligans that like
power and put someone decent in, even in the worst nieghborhoods in the
country, the students excell. But you guys would rather blame everybody
and his dog, just to keep this sick system going that harms our kids
future.

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Comment
NowWeKnow, (5 months ago)

And heck the state couldn't do an audit if it wanted to
with the auditor we have, look at the joke the BA audit was after 2 years
trying. Crooks would die of old age before they got caught.

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Comment
RGM, Tulsa (5 months ago)

The problem isn't teachers. It isn't the number of students
in a class. The problem isn't even the money we throw into the school
system. The problem is people, specifically parents and students, who no
longer want to hold themselves accountable, instead expecting that the
teachers can just pour the knowledge into children and make it stick. I am
33 years old. I remember in the 5th grade, a small rumbling went through
my elementary school. Some parents were complaining that their children
had never been on the honor roll (all A's and B's) or the principal's
honor roll (all A's). The suggested solution from these parents? Not more
studying by the students. Not additional time before or after school. Not
tutoring. These parents suggested that the honor roll be removed, as it
wasn't achievable for their students. These parents felt that the students
who worked harder and achieved more should not be recognized for this. In
my opinion, the adult equivalent would be to eliminate performance bonus's
and raises.
When I was in school, when my brother and I got home, we
immediately did homework, with either parental supervision right then, or
parental follow-up later. No TV.... no Nintendo... no playing... until the
homework was done. After that, we could watch TV, we usually got less than
an hour. At 5 pm, the TV was put on the news, local news at 5 and 6, and
national news at 5:30. Dad was usually home by 6, dinner was at 6:30, TV
was still on, but usually to wheel of fortune, which may be entertainment
but is a puzzle solving game, requiring thinking. No soda during dinner
either. After dinner, we could play outside if it was still light, or with
toys, but the TV was for mom and dad, who had their own shows to watch. In
elementary school, bath was at 8 with bedtime at 8:30.... Middle school
bedtime moved to 9. Nowadays... just look at a kid watching TV. I've seen
kids with ADHD turn into absolute zombies when you turn on a TV.
Kids
drink soda all day long, parents get kids meals that are large enough to
feed two adults because they don't want their kids to cause a scene.
Parents don't hold their kids accountable for their own actions - I
actually caught a girl trying to scam and steal from by business recently,
her mother came in yelling and screaming that "she's just in high school,
she doesn't know any better". Really? I knew better in pre-school.

When I was in my first few years of school, spankings were still
allowed. I actually heard two students get them. My parents told me that
if I ever, EVER, got a spanking at school, I would get twice as many when
I got home. That taught me respect for the discipline process. I was
never, ever allowed to call teachers by first names, or even be in any way
disrespecting to them. Nowadays, parents think that their child does no
wrong and everything is the teacher's fault, or the system's fault. They
wonder why their child doesn't learn, while at the same time the child
sees the parent belittling the teacher or denying that the teacher has any
authority over the student.

Now, I'm just waiting for the hate
messages and comments going "no teacher is going to tell my child when
they are wrong" or so-on and so forth. Because, it will be these people
who are the problem.

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Comment
MomboCat, Harrah (5 months ago)

Why can't Askins (AND Fallin) just say "I won't support
raising taxes UNLESS SQ 744 passes"?

Why don't we just interpret
the passage of SQ 744 as a mandate for a tax increase? If both candidates
(and even the legislative candidates) hammer that point home to the
voters, then either the question will be defeated, or we'll have a built
in funding mechanism.

An additional half percent on income over
$50K, and additional half percent on income over $100K, and an additional
half percent on income over $150K would solve so many problems in this
state and make it a so much better place to live.

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Comment
Notjanet
Barresi, (5 months ago)

Yeah, Oklahomer! Our state has reformed education
practically to death. The schools have been waiting for money to pay for
all the state and federal mandates for 15 years. Every year it's this
promise or that, which doesn't come in. They call it "revenue shortfalls"
but it's just failed promises from the Legislature that keep causing
schools to rob Peter to pay Paul - and when they keep schools performing
admirably under these conditions they are told a a 9% cut is a 2% cut. ...
And, there is no more ACCOUNTABLE function of state gov't than public
schools -- definitely not higher ed! Fortunately, Wayne feels compelled to
tell the truth and here it is: "In the first year, the state would have to
come up with $392 million in new funding for public schools."
What? Not
$1.2 billion? If there were a prize for the Biggest Liar, I think the
No744 crowd would be the winner.

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Comment
Notjanet
Barresi, (5 months ago)

Oops! I meant 2.9% cut last year, which was actually a 9%
cut ($196 million), following a 7.5% cut the year before. ... BTW,
Oklahoma public schools serve 650,000 students, more than 3 times the
tuition-paying number of students in higher ed....

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Comment
Ferris
Bueller, Northbrook, Il (5 months ago)

7th Angel/Blue - sorry, I was out when you rang. I have seen
your picture and if you are really intent on a face to face you'll have to
give me a little time to polish my shield into a mirror.

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Comment
Jester1969, Broken Arrow (5 months ago)

Homercrat,

I notice that you are friend with 7th
Angel who has a private profile. Unless you are one that likes to employ
double standards (which you do), you need to scold 7th about how much of a
character flaw it is to run a private profile. What is 7th trying to hide?
Is 7th one of YOUR sockpuppets?

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Comment
Oklahomer, Sapulpa (5 months ago)

Jester1969: Normally I ignore your nonsense, and believe me,
this is the only comment that you will get from me on this thread,
BUT....

I scold cowards for refusing to EITHER make their profile
public OR accept and keep a friends invitation. 7th Angel immediately
accepted my friends request and I have no doubt that he has the character
to keep his commitment to allow me to follow his comment history as easily
as he and you may follow my comment history. In case you forgot, you
deleted me as a friend on the night that I guessed that you have more than
one account on this site. I even asked you sarcastically about what went
wrong with our friendship. I found it interesting a couple of weeks later
when Ferris Bueller asked me the same question on a message that can still
be found in my public messages on my profile page. Ferris got flustered
and asked me to disregard that message on another message that I saved on
that same profile page. It seemed to me that you wanted to throw that
comment back at me, but forgot to which character that I originally
addressed it. Busted!

You are confusing me with another of your
"characters." It is Michael Phillips who has piously announced on his
profile page that he declines friends invitations from people with
restricted profile pages. He then maintains friendships with people such
as you and "my view."

I will extend the invitation to you once
again-- Be my friend so that I can read your record of comments as easily
as you can read mine.

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Comment
Jester1969, Broken Arrow (5 months ago)

Homercrat,

You can extend you faux friendship
requests to me until the cows come home but I will just reject it as I
have before. Offer as much as you like however.

You accusing me of
having more than one account is nothing new. Its just more evidence of
your Democrat self coming out on your current profile. I am only me, but
your ego can't accept that because it would mean that there are more than
one or two people that disagree with you. My profile is private but I have
nothing to hide from the TW so I once again offer the same solution. You
and I both can ask the TW to investigate our profiles to see if I am
Ferris/Diablo/Jester/Humbleservant and to see if you are the
Democrat.

What are you afraid of?

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Comment
Dr.
Strangelove, Don't Ask (5 months ago)

I always laugh when someone on here who created a profile
several days ago starts making accusations against long-time posters. I
will say this, if I'm also Jester and Ferris then I should have the TW
consolidate my accounts and shoot me straight to the top of the
leaderboard, haha

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Comment
Ferris
Bueller, Northbrook, Il (5 months ago)

Did you get that Doc? You're supposed to keep track of all
of Blue's transformations on all her profiles. That's a full time job for
someone.

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Comment
Ferris
Bueller, Northbrook, Il (5 months ago)

Perseus is still busy polishing but he's quite experienced
and should be done soon.

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Comment
Jester1969, Broken Arrow (5 months ago)

7th,

"Jester169, Your profile is not
open."

I thought that was well established so I guess I am
missing your point.

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Comment
Lord
WebG, Tulsa (5 months ago)

Starting the box wine early tonight! Huh?

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Comment
Ferris
Bueller, Northbrook, Il (5 months ago)

Actually Blue is a bit hermaphroditish, posing as women,
pirates, fishermen, sports mascots and all sorts of characters. Isn't that
right, Angel?

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Comment
Lord
WebG, Tulsa (5 months ago)

I don't know you.. so what you do with bullies is beyond me!
I got 99 problems and you ain't one of them!

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Comment
Dr.
Strangelove, Don't Ask (5 months ago)

Angel what happened at post 355? Did you faart, get booted,
blow up your hard drive, lose your email? I try to keep track of this
stuff and I'm sorry I missed it.

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Comment
Jester1969, Broken Arrow (5 months ago)

7th,

You may run your profile anyway that you wish
and I will run mine how I see fit regardless of what any poster on this
sight might think about it. Don't like private profiles, don't have one is
the way I see it.

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Comment
Lord
WebG, Tulsa (5 months ago)

Have another glass of franzia.. this is getting interesting!

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Comment
Lord
WebG, Tulsa (5 months ago)

You are starting to slur your text!

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Comment
Conservative
Republic, NY Tax capitol of the world (5 months ago)

Wait, let me get my drink, this thread is going deeper than
the Chilean mine rescue,

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Comment
SraChavez, Tulsa (5 months ago)

I see it's been lively in here. Let's see what was the
topic?? Oh, yeah. SQ744. I'm voting no.

Just for the record, I
like Franzia Chillable Red. I don't usually go for wine in a box, but I
like that one. My favorite is a Route 66 Raspberry wine. Swish just a
second and a beautiful burst of raspberry fills your mouth.

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Comment
independent, tulsa (5 months ago)

Hell no, 744!! CONSOLIDATE SCHOOLS

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Comment
possibilities, (5 months ago)

Taxing the Casinos would be a great way to generate extra
funding for state programs or education.

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Comment
truth
fairy, (5 months ago)

Very funny, possibilities.
Since the legalization of
gambling in Oklahoma, state legislature has been using the education
budget as a slush fund to hand out favors to corporate cronies.
This
bill prevents that.
Vote yes on 744.

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Comment
truth
fairy, (5 months ago)

independent, school consolidation would mean the closing of
many small town schools.
Those small elementary schools are the center
of such towns, and eliminating them would have a very negative effect on
their "independence" and sense of community.

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Comment
Gasp, tulsa (5 months ago)

So I guess state funding of schools has really been a
stimulus package for all those small towns. And you guys say stimulus does
not work?

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Comment
Gasp, tulsa (5 months ago)

Thank you Mr. Green for staying with what is
relevant.

The No crowd says there will be no accountability, no
oversight, no whatever. It is like the money will be spent without any
input from the state. It is as if the legislature and governor, most
likely republicans, cannot pass consolidation requirements, cannot
restrict monies to the classroom? Thank for not using any of these phony
baloney arguments. Tells me they are just not true.

No 744 may
force us to rethink our restrictions on the ability of our legislature to
raise taxes. They set it up in times of prosperity so we would not be able
with a simple majority of our elected reps. to raise taxes now they need
to pay the price. And Oklahoman's need to suffer for creating such a
barrier to good representative government.

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Gasp, tulsa (5 months ago)

Vote yes to help our kids and send a message to
irresponsible legislators and governors and citizens.

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Comment
129173, (5 months ago)

Oklahomer - at your insisting I read the entire NCLB and did
research on this bill. There is NOTHING in 744 to say that any of the
additional funding will acutally get to the classrooms or to comply with
NCLB and I would be willing to bet most of it will be lost at high level
bureaucrats. NO MY VOTE IS A RESOUNDING NO NO NO and another NO and in the
words of Jenks and BA "I refuse to comply"

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Comment
Gasp, tulsa (5 months ago)

129... Well the money will be collected and sent via the
legislature to the schools. The legislature is only forced to raise the
money. They have all the discretion they have now to consolidate and or
insist that the money go to the classroom and not to administration. Of
course they can always pass it on like they do now to the local boards. I
seem to remember that the Republicans are real fans of local control.

So when they say there will be no accountability they are dissing
their own ability to legislate. To which I must agree. Their incompetence
to date does render 744 and all other appropriations lacking in
accountability.

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Comment
NowWeKnow, (5 months ago)

7th Angel, reading your posts have been very
entertaining. I can see the Irish in you for sure. Though in me having not
known the homeland from before my family fought under the colors of G.
Washington, I say seeing the spirit makes me proud of my roots. ;)

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Comment
docpresley, Tulsa (5 months ago)

Hi Ferris, Jester and 7th,

I just caught up to this
thread and it seems I'm a bit in the dark about whats being
discussed.

Probably my age ( :

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Comment
docpresley, Tulsa (5 months ago)

Hey 7th, I guess you were in Ireland with Google, enjoying
the 2.4 percent tax rate ( :

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Comment
Charley, (5 months ago)

744 is another request for money. If the government had used
the taxes we've given them, to do these jobs & they had used it
correctly, I would gladly give even more, for the sake of the
kids.

However, government had proved beyond the shadow of doubt,
that government can't be trusted with another nickel.

The kids
would never see a nickel of this money.

By the way, if our elected
representatives really have slush funds & over the top perks, maybe
that should be against the law.

As far as the article goes, it
must have been written to make folks aware of the high cost of education,
when the government controls the reins.

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